There is no patriarchy and there never has been one ever. It is a lie.
There is no country in the world where women are treated poorly where regular men aren't also treated worse. But these men (and boys) have always been invisible and disposable.
I suppose it depends which factor you're looking at. Afghanistan would be my primary candidate for the position of 'modern patriarchal society'... but men do most of the agricultural labor, they represent almost all of the prisoners, they do all of the building, and they fight all of the wars. I think that there ARE societies which can be described as patriarchal but we should be careful with the term. The subordination of women is partly based upon the cultural sense that they are valuable and must be protected, rather than the feminist narrative (imported wholesale from Marxism) of men (capitalists) using their power to oppress and control women (the proletariat) as a class to protect their privileges and prerogatives.
I'm struggling to recall some discrete facts about sex disparities in Vietnam...
> I'm struggling to recall some discrete facts about sex disparities in Vietnam...
Domestic abuse of women by men is common. In the north, girls of a particular subculture are kidnapped to be sold to Chinese of that subculture. Parents financially support their sons but not their daughters, after marriage. Young women of some villages are occasionally sold to old men.
On the other hand, sons are desired as children because they’re effectively a retirement plan. Parents support their sons so much because it’s an investment. Patriarchal but not in the modern feminist sense.
When it comes to dangerous or awful labor, I don’t know. For sure men and women both work in factories and family farms and pretty women can make money in ways unavailable to men, if they have to. But the poverties I was exposed to weren’t of the die-in-the-mines variety. And it’s an incredibly safe country so men don’t die by violence very often, so policing is safe.
If Vietnam goes back to war then men will be worse off, of course.
This is all from conversations I had while I lived there. Some were with the girl I was seeing or from other dates. Most were from friends and acquaintances. I knew people from a pretty big cross section of society but skewed middle class.
It’s definitely a patriarchy in the sense that the father or grandfather is in charge and women are expected to be subordinate. American feminists don’t restrict patriarchy to any actual meaning because doing so would undermine their ideology but patriarchy is still a real thing in the world.
Doesn’t mean it’s good or bad for men. Feminists have warped the definition by ideological necessity but you can still have a patriarchy and men be worse off than women. It isn’t necessarily due to patriarchy itself either - IMO mostly it’s from tyranny and economic class butting against greed or necessity.
I know very little of Vietnam but if I have to speculate, I would say that everything you said in your comments about the crimes against women, are, well, crimes. That is, illegal. Or are you stating that these things are legal and supported by the state?
Now tell me something: is domestic violence against men illegal in Vietnam? Because it isn't in my country.
You may not have experienced horrific labor conditions but I assure you that there are men and even boys who would have.
And no, it's not women who are subordinate to men; it's the young who are subordinate to their elders. That's the problem with calling it a patriarchy; you label everything bad after men, label everything good after women and then simultaneously claim that you don't demonize men.
It has always been a system benefiting the rich and powerful. Feminists succeed because they're easy collaborators and can get simps to become collaborators too.
There is no patriarchy and there never has been one ever. It is a lie.
There is no country in the world where women are treated poorly where regular men aren't also treated worse. But these men (and boys) have always been invisible and disposable.
Vietnam? Women are for sure treated poorly there. I didn’t see any evidence that typical men are treated worse.
I suppose it depends which factor you're looking at. Afghanistan would be my primary candidate for the position of 'modern patriarchal society'... but men do most of the agricultural labor, they represent almost all of the prisoners, they do all of the building, and they fight all of the wars. I think that there ARE societies which can be described as patriarchal but we should be careful with the term. The subordination of women is partly based upon the cultural sense that they are valuable and must be protected, rather than the feminist narrative (imported wholesale from Marxism) of men (capitalists) using their power to oppress and control women (the proletariat) as a class to protect their privileges and prerogatives.
I'm struggling to recall some discrete facts about sex disparities in Vietnam...
> I'm struggling to recall some discrete facts about sex disparities in Vietnam...
Domestic abuse of women by men is common. In the north, girls of a particular subculture are kidnapped to be sold to Chinese of that subculture. Parents financially support their sons but not their daughters, after marriage. Young women of some villages are occasionally sold to old men.
On the other hand, sons are desired as children because they’re effectively a retirement plan. Parents support their sons so much because it’s an investment. Patriarchal but not in the modern feminist sense.
When it comes to dangerous or awful labor, I don’t know. For sure men and women both work in factories and family farms and pretty women can make money in ways unavailable to men, if they have to. But the poverties I was exposed to weren’t of the die-in-the-mines variety. And it’s an incredibly safe country so men don’t die by violence very often, so policing is safe.
If Vietnam goes back to war then men will be worse off, of course.
This is all from conversations I had while I lived there. Some were with the girl I was seeing or from other dates. Most were from friends and acquaintances. I knew people from a pretty big cross section of society but skewed middle class.
It’s definitely a patriarchy in the sense that the father or grandfather is in charge and women are expected to be subordinate. American feminists don’t restrict patriarchy to any actual meaning because doing so would undermine their ideology but patriarchy is still a real thing in the world.
Doesn’t mean it’s good or bad for men. Feminists have warped the definition by ideological necessity but you can still have a patriarchy and men be worse off than women. It isn’t necessarily due to patriarchy itself either - IMO mostly it’s from tyranny and economic class butting against greed or necessity.
I know very little of Vietnam but if I have to speculate, I would say that everything you said in your comments about the crimes against women, are, well, crimes. That is, illegal. Or are you stating that these things are legal and supported by the state?
Now tell me something: is domestic violence against men illegal in Vietnam? Because it isn't in my country.
You may not have experienced horrific labor conditions but I assure you that there are men and even boys who would have.
And no, it's not women who are subordinate to men; it's the young who are subordinate to their elders. That's the problem with calling it a patriarchy; you label everything bad after men, label everything good after women and then simultaneously claim that you don't demonize men.
It has always been a system benefiting the rich and powerful. Feminists succeed because they're easy collaborators and can get simps to become collaborators too.
Again, well argued
Yup. I'll never get over Googling women+against+amber+heard